Thursday, 11 March, 2010

1. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @10:52am:

   "Code Words"
   
   My mother has been listening too much to this numbskull. Everything is a "code word". Does he have a little secret decoder ting to figure them all out?
   
   Truth is, he reminds me a lot of preachers I have known over the years. They have a lot in common. In order to have a flock, you tell that that there is some secret information, but you can find it, and be one up on everybody else. And, I'll tell you the secrets, to help you figure it out...because they have been revealed to me by_______. God/aliens/the CIA/my aunt Sally/my own superior intellect (insert one.)
2. By Patricio. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @10:55am:

   Does that mean Beck is leaving the Mormon church too?
3. By Doug. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @12:14pm:

   I also agree with:
   
   America, I'm gonna shoot straight with you. I think I've wasted your time. I have wasted an hour of your time. And I apologize for that. - Glenn Beck
   (Eric Massa disappoints Glenn Beck)
   
   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/11/jon-stewart-on-becks-mass_n_494600.html
   
   http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/wed-march-10-2010-jerry-seinfeld
4. By Shel-tone. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @12:23pm:

   Mentally Ill.
5. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @12:46pm:

   Not that I agree with Glenn Beck on anything, but if you don't believe in God, in what DO you believe? I've always been curious to know what atheists and agnostics believe happens after we die.
   
   I must be an eternal optimist though because I keep expecting an answer more profound than "that's it... when we die, we're dead. The end."
6. By J-Walk. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @12:55pm:

   I've always been curious to know what atheists and agnostics believe happens after we die.

   
   Same thing that happens to any living creature: nothing. The brain is the source of our consciousness. When the brain dies, we are unconscious forever -- just like we were before we were born. There is absolutely no reason to think anything else happens.
   
   That's about as profound as it gets. But feel free to believe other stories about heavenly gates and eternal torment. Those stories were invented to control people.
7. By scot. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @12:57pm:

   Cap and trade was invented to control people.
8. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:04pm:

   Clearly there's no scientific reason to believe that an "eternal soul" actually exists. I guess I'm in the minority because I consider myself a man of science and at the same time, I consider myself to be spiritual.
   
   I agree that religion was created to control people but there's also a lot of evidence that it set people free. I think that with the passage of time religion and religious believes have gotten polluted with ideas from people who were either self-serving or manipulating the data "for the greater good". Dietary recommendations in the Bible and the Quran have this in common.
   
   Having said that though, the idea of life after death brings countless people peace of mind while they're alive. Without religion, that peace of mind can't exist. I guess I wonder how death is handled by people who don't believe in the after life.
   
   I hope it's clear that I'm not judging here. I'd just like to hear some thoughts from people who don't believe in "life" after death.
9. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:19pm:

   Cap and trade was invented to control people.

   
   Uh, no. Cap and trade was invented as a way for certain favored corporations to make money at the expense of everyone else, all the while pretending to be "green". Which I guess might be some measure of control. So maybe you're right. Just this once.
10. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:22pm:

    ..the idea of life after death brings countless people peace of mind while they're alive. Without religion, that peace of mind can't exist.

    
    That's a mighty big logical jump, there.
    
    

    I guess I wonder how death is handled by people who don't believe in the after life.

    
    Much better.
    
    So find out. Probably not here...people close to death are most likely not posting on the J-Walk blog.
11. By jake. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:24pm:

    So, when Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan, was he promoting Nazi or Communist social justice?
12. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:27pm:

    communist. Little "c". Or maybe just socialist. Same as when he told people to give to the poor, or when the apostles in Acts shared everything they had in common.
13. By Patricio. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:48pm:

    I guess I wonder how death is handled by people who don't believe in the after life.
    
    It matters not how other people handle it. Everyone handles it differently. Some people can only find peace of mind when they think that they receive a mansion in heaven, or 70 virgins. Whatever. I think we return to the same state that we were in before we were born, which is the opposite of a we, it just is. This life is a gift, enjoy it. Too many Christians hate this life and this earth because they've been promised a cop-out in the form of pearly gates and mansions in return for their submission while they're alive. Too bad for them, I say.
14. By Dean Booth. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:55pm:

    Speaking of a belief in an afterlife, I wonder if Beck's contract with Fox has a Sanity Clause.
15. By LandStander. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @01:59pm:

    As an agnostic, I believe when I die I return to the Earth... in the form of a burrowing dwarf who is allergic to sunlight and lives in elaborate underground network of tunnels. I will spend my free time hunting for worms to eat and mining for precious metals so I can trade them for more worms to eat. That's just a rough idea, but you get the picture. Also, I wear an awesome helmet.
16. By Doug. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @02:04pm:

    I guess I wonder how death is handled by people who don't believe in the after life.Very well thank you. Removing the obsession about life after death, & saving your's and other's souls, makes life much less complicated, less stressful, and more productive and peaceful.
    
    This is all there is so make the most of it. IMHO "this is all there is" makes you more compassionate and helps handle jerks and aholes better.
17. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @02:21pm:

    Too many Christians hate this life and this earth because they've been promised a cop-out in the form of pearly gates and mansions in return for their submission while they're alive. Too bad for them, I say.

    
    
    It's not just the Christians but you're right. Anyone who doesn't make the most of what we know we've got is making a huge mistake. Too bad for them... yes. I just wish they didn't go so far out of their way to make the rest of us so miserable whenever we come into contact with them.
18. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @02:23pm:

    IMHO "this is all there is" makes you more compassionate and helps handle jerks and aholes better.

    
    
    Care to elaborate on that idea? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that one.
19. By Spokane Mary. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @02:54pm:

    I don't think a person's religious beliefs or lack of them has a thing to do with how compassionate or giving or happy they are; some people share with others and some don't - it's that simple. How a person is raised probably has more to do with how he interacts with others than whether he goes to church or not and the experiences he has in his life direct his choices, just like everyone else. I've known people who are proud to call themselves religious, but who (quietly) resent their tithe and I've known religious people who shortchange their own families in order to give to others. The same is true for the nonreligious; some are charitable, some are tightwads and greedy, some are compassionate, some care only about themselves and think of the needy as losers.
    
    The Bible will always give a person a reason to stand on whatever position he's chosen: the OT is threatening, the NT compassionate. Religiosity does not guarantee goodness nor meanness of spirit.
20. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @02:59pm:

    The Bible will always give a person a reason to stand on whatever position he's chosen: the OT is threatening, the NT compassionate.

    
    
    You're right. I think what I really resent is when people twist the words of the Bible or Quran to not only serve their own needs but to force their opinions on others who may or may not be interested.
21. By ASL. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:03pm:

    I think the best indicator of how likely someone is to help others in need is whether they have ever been in need themselves.
22. By Spokane Mary. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:07pm:

    What really would make a GRAND improvement in the world is less finger-pointing and less self-righteousness from both sides.
    
    As for how different people approach death, you should talk to people who work in hospices or other places where they have a lot of exposure to the dying - not just ask people who have never been exposed to more than one or two deaths in their lifetime what role religion does or does not play in one's acceptance of death. Death is the one great mystery; it's such a big deal that 90% of tv shows and movies have death in some form in abundance, yet most people have little contact with it in their lifetime - which is why it remains such a big mystery.
    
    From the experience I've had, I can tell you this: Death really is the great equalizer.
23. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:09pm:

    I think the best indicator of how likely someone is to help others in need is whether they have ever been in need themselves.

    
    
    That's an interesting thought. I read that the best indicator of how likely someone is to help another has to do with their belonging to the same "tribe". The way we dress, our level of personal hygiene and manner of speaking are some of the indicators of the tribe to which we belong.
    
    Evidently, these are more important than what we would automatically expect to cause us to help another person. They're more important than age, gender, and race in determining if another person is in our "tribe". I wish I could remember the name of the study but I read it 30 years ago so I barely remember the content.
    
    Either way, I've thought about it regularly in trying to understand how I see others. If anyone recognizes the study by my feeble description, I'd like to know the name of it if you'd care to share it.
24. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:13pm:

    That's an interesting idea, Mary. I guess what I really meant was not how do they handle death literally but how they handle it academically. In other words, what do they think about it when it's not imminent.
    
    That said, I'll bet I could learn tons from talking to people in hospices and listening to what their own individual experiences are. I just can't imagine how I'd go about doing that without being ghoulish.
25. By Spokane Mary. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:19pm:

    Excellent point, ASL; experience has always been the best teacher.
    
    

    I think what I really resent is when people twist the words of the Bible or Quran to ...

    
    It isn't really necessary to twist any words, wombat; you can grab anything you want out of the book just as it is. As for taking things out of context - of course you are; that's what memorizing scriptures is all about, isn't it? And don't we take things out of context all the time anyway? We pick what we want to remember and use and throw the rest away; we do that with everything - we have to.
    
    As for forcing one's opinions on someone else, that's arrogance, not necessarily religious or anti-religious -just arrogance. It's the person exercising his power trip, that's all. Religion and anti-religion just lend themselves well to the exercise so they get a lot of mileage.
26. By Spokane Mary. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:25pm:

    I think the "tribal" thing is a good point; that could certainly cover the majority of our day-to-day expressions of cooperation and caring, but I think ASL is absolutely on the button - nothing will change a person's perceptions any faster than finding himself on the other side of the fence with the other tribe and in for the duration.
27. By 12-stringer. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @03:37pm:

    I'll leave it to you guys determine whether this is related to the discussion or not.
    
    Generosity is contagious … Kindness Breeds More Kindness, Study Shows
    
    (and, likewise, from the end of that article, "Selfish behavior spreads easily, too.")
28. By Spokane Mary. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @04:20pm:

    What it's like to die:
    
    You might try Bill Moyer's On Our Own Terms series on PBS - I'm sure it's online.
    
    Or this: http://www.hospicenet.org/html/final.html - I haven't read it, but it looks about right.
    
    Another would be http:// dying dot about dot com
    
    I just googled, "stories of death and dying" - there are many links. You have to pick through them, of course, if you want to eliminate all the websites with biased content (angel stories, crime, etc) and those selling services and books, but the stories are there and you can read them without feeling "ghoulish" (good word, that).
29. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @05:14pm:

    Thanks, Mary. I'll check it out.
30. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @05:33pm:

    "I think the best indicator of how likely someone is to help others in need is whether they have ever been in need themselves."
    
    That's an interesting thought. I read that the best indicator of how likely someone is to help another has to do with their belonging to the same "tribe".

    
    
    Probably both are true. A person who has truly been in need may have been helped by someone unexpected, greatly expanding his concept of how big the tribe really is.
31. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @05:34pm:

    But then back to the topic, Beck, and the people like Beck that I mentioned in the first comment, have the express aim of making their own, exclusive, tribe.
32. By Minderbinder. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @06:16pm:

    Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, FOX, the first order of business is to sell soap, and that they do, the same way a speck of sand creates a pearl, through irritation.
    
    It doesn't matter what they say or how they say it as long as they grab an audience and keep it tuned-in. Just as counterfeit money drives good money out of circulation, these guys drive real entertainment, real news, real dialog from the media.
    
    Even if we don't listen to them, we're all dumber because of them, because the truth is lost in the static. What's the frequency, Kenneth?
33. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @06:19pm:

    Well, Minderbender, I'll give you props for creative logic.
34. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @06:22pm:

    Nope, he's right. Argument sells.
35. By Doug. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @06:36pm:

    It doesn't matter what they say or how they say it as long as they grab an audience and keep it tuned-in.

    
    
    
    "Do you know what bought me all this?" (he asked, waving his hand in the general direction of his prosperity) "Not my political ideas. Conservatism didn’t buy this house. First and foremost I’m a businessman. My first goal is to attract the largest possible audience so I can charge confiscatory ad rates. I happen to have great entertainment skills, but that enables me to sell airtime."
    - Rush Limbaugh
36. By deaudonnee@att.net. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @06:45pm:

    I am agnostic but something within me believes that there is a life after death. I know what I would like it to be but that does not garantee that I will get that - like seeing all my relatives from back in the 1500s, or getting to have a nice chat with Robert E. Lee and Stonewall, or seeing old friends and telling William Kidd that I was always on his side. Maybe it will be that way, maybe not but hope springs eternal.
37. By DonL. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @07:30pm:

    I think there will be something after death, but I'm happy to admit I don't know what it will be.
    I spent lots of time in my youth worrying about it and learning as much as I could about different religions in search of answers, uncovering more questions. I think we just have to be happy not knowing.
    If the word "religion" means "belief", then I think we all believe in something. For me to impose that on someone else or for someone else to impose that on me is just wrong. This is I think something that comes from life experience alone. I just can't understand how any two people can have exactly the same beliefs.
38. By Minderbinder. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @08:14pm:

    So wombat, let me 'splain...
    
    I said those cats are on the airwaves solely because they bring in sponsors for their bosses. check
    
    I said playing to the lowest common denominator drives good shows from the airwaves (counterfeit vs. real money). Talk/reality shows are extremely cheap to produce which makes more money for the bosses. Quality programs can't compete. Most channels used to carry content; AMC showed movies 24/7; now much of their programming is infomercials. If idiots will sit through a half-hour advertisement, why produce anything but ads? check
    
    The bar for what constitutes truth has been lowered. When Rush or Beck (taken as sole sources of truth) can sway what half the public believes about global warming, then average intelligence drops, making the country dumber as a whole. To borrow a line, think about how stupid the average guy is; well half the country is dumber than him. check Care to cross-examine?
39. By Volt. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @09:01pm:

    Words like "after," "always" and "eternal" are expressions of our concept of time.
    
    Time is linear for people so we experience it in concordance and share it isochronally with our contemporaries. This we just know. All spoken languages have words like these that punctuate time.
    
    We live chained to our times and celebrate life tethered by them to our contemporaries. But, the physical reality of time ebbs and flows in ways that transcend the passage of our years in life. The physics of this hints that there is more than we can know in life.
    
    Can you believe in the possibility of a physical reality you cannot imagine?
    
    I hope we get to dance with those we seek in the past and also those that seek us from the future. For I believe that after we die there is no human time, but that we can continue to emanate from our living times like the light from a long extinguished star.
40. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @09:04pm:

    For I believe that after we die there is no human time, but that we can continue to emanate from our living times like the light from a long extinguished star.

    
    Well, for what it's worth, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than most of the religious offerings.
41. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @09:14pm:

    Volt- I don't know if you did it intentionally or not but you've touched on one of the most fascinating ideas of the afterlife. Supposedly, once we leave this life, time is irrelevant. It's been attempted to express it as "forever" but really, it just means that time doesn't pass.
    
    This is really at the edge of my capacity for understanding which brings me to your next idea- the possibility that this other reality (physical or otherwise) is beyond our imagination. I fully expect that to be the case. I don't think that we as humans were built to be able to understand the universe let alone what's beyond it.
    
    Lastly, I've suspected that part of the concept of immortality in the physical sense is also elusive. The DaVinci Code touched on this idea (badly, in my opinion) but I've seen my grandmother in my children even though they never met. They'll say things or make gestures that are her signatures. In that way, she lives on in a way that I can see her directly.
42. By wombat. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @09:16pm:

    Minderbender- You're not explaining. You're trying to make yourself look right. That's okay with me. I'm not going to "cross-examine" you but only because I can't help thinking it would somehow, mysteriously end up in a halfhearted argument.
43. By David. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @11:13pm:

    For I believe that after we die there is no human time, but that we can continue to emanate from our living times like the light from a long extinguished star.
    
    Volt, that is poetry. I don't think I've ever heard those notions put so well, so succinctly, and so beautifully at the same time.
    
    I bet you can rally tell a story.
44. By David. Comment posted 11-Mar-2010 @11:19pm:

    wombat
    
    explain: to buttress your declaration with supportive argument. i.e. "make yourself look right."
    
    It's what we do with our opinions. That's why we have them because we believe them to be right. you can agree or not. If you don't, you're wrong.
    
    Minderbinder makes very strong points, and I believe America is worse off today because of it (FOX, rush, beck, savage, and their ilk)
45. By wombat. Comment posted 12-Mar-2010 @04:51am:

    Ok, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this so I'll just talk about his first point.
    
    He said, "I said those cats are on the airwaves solely because they bring in sponsors for their bosses. check"
    
    But his original point was, "Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, FOX, the first order of business is to sell soap, and that they do, the same way a speck of sand creates a pearl, through irritation."
    
    Sure, he says "they bring in sponsor for their bosses"... sorta, but he also says they do it "through irritation". I'm sure countless people who watch their shows don't think they're irritating at all.
    
    I don't actually believe that Minderbender's list dominates the ratings because they're irritating.
    
    I said that he was trying to make himself look right because he changed the essence of what he said when he defended his positions. His "check" list is clearly stronger than his initial list.
46. By scot. Comment posted 12-Mar-2010 @08:30am:

    Is that a duck?
47. By bdn2004. Comment posted 12-Mar-2010 @09:51am:

    Glenn Beck is right about the churches. If you are attending a church spewing social and economic justice…you must be attending a church like Barack attended for 20 years pastored by Jeremiah Wright…Are you saying J-Walk that that is a GOOD thing? God D America!! ? You people are scary, my lord why do you hate our country so much?
48. By bdn2004. Comment posted 12-Mar-2010 @10:02am:

    And another thing… The Communist Party USA is fully onboard with government control of car companies, the banks and your health. And the Nazis did indeed have a lot of the same ideas as the commies. I find it hard to find something in his statement not to agree with.
    
    Totalitarian regimes through history have promised "social and economic justice". But instead have brought social injustice, death and poverty...Nazi Germany, Cuba, USSR, France after the French Revolution, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Mao's China. But the leaders lived very well. While the millions starved Mao and Pol Pot both both put on 50 lbs.
    
    The only society in history that has ever come close to achieving equality, is the USA where the poor have an obesity problem, tv's, cell phones, computers, minivans... But our poor, unlike all others have the potential to be rich if they go down a tried and true path. But leftists try to make us more and more like the commies - its baffling.
49. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 12-Mar-2010 @10:21am:

    it's baffling

    
    Not to everyone:
    
    "Equality in Sweden
    
    Equality is a cornerstone in Swedish society. Sweden has, in effect, an almost single-class society. The government consists of nearly equal numbers of men and women, and almost everyone in the country is on a first-name basis.
    
    In Swedish culture, there is a strong belief that a more just and democratic society results from women and men sharing power and influence equally. Women and men in Sweden have the same opportunities, rights and obligations in all areas of life. Equality is such a big part of Swedish society that there are two specific words for it in Swedish: jämställdhet, for gender equality, and jämlikhet, for equality in general.
    
    In order to support these ideals, a well-developed welfare system is in place that makes it easier for both genders to balance their work and family life."

Original content © 2011, John Walkenbach